I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. I think it's 100F. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Hi. Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? The exhaust is overheating. But, you can buy a new recirculating pump for $200-400. As a result, the stuff will rub against the wall of the pump and produce a hum like a refrigerator when you turn the unit on. House generators are quite expensive. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. Cookie Notice The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. It worked perfectly. Make sure the electrical cord is grounded. You dont have to install an additional pipe. The answer is that leftover water in the pipes has cooled over time. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Hathaspace Smart True HEPA Air Purifier Reviews, 4+6 Best Whole-House Dehumidifiers (Ducted, Portable), 4 Quietest Dehumidifiers (Best Bedroom Dehumidifiers): 52.1 dB Or Lower, energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Is there a check valve? Unfortunately, the heat exchanger cannot be fixed and has to be replaced. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. Fits These Models Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Does anybody have any thoughts of what I should get checked out? Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Yes!!! Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Ensure that all hot water faucets are closed, and ensure that the internal circulator and any external circulating pumps are off. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . Is the plumbers reasoning valid here? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. Examine the wiring and thermistors condition. Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. However, the unit comes equipped with a standard 120V appliance cord and operates between 200 and 300 watts. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. What disadvantages, beside cost???? The Navien is smart enough to stop recirculation when it recognises hot water has made the entire loop. This may require chasing the supply lines. Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. Navien tankless whole house HWH. That is a premium service however. Unscrew the plug cover with a suitable screwdriver to remove it. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). He obtained his Bachelor of Science degree from the University Of Texas at El Paso. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? Do we keep the flames on after cooking? However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. SEER = (1 EER100% + 42 EER75% + 45 EER50% + 12 EER25%)/100, Total Heat (BTU/hr.) To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. Locate the reset button on the heaters front control panel. With the NRCR you can set your own schedule with a remote accessory and tailor the integrated pump to your lifestyle or scheduled needs. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. Some brands/models dont include it. Open the service port on the host side and the isolation valve on the cold side, pushing water through the system. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I obviously dont know much about this but the plumber is giving reasons that feel like he is making up dont make sense to me: 1. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. Is this correct for the function of the system? Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. After draining a few hot water tanks over the years, removing sediment, will the cold water now possibly have some sediment and/or taste issues. It should come out of the hot water port. Make sure to follow our instructions properly for the right application. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. Turn off the unit and check the valve's wiring and condition. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. I recommend you disassemble the recirculation pump from the unit and inspect it carefully for foreign materials. JavaScript is disabled. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. Take care! The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. I recently had a 240A2 installed. Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. We dont. Because a water recirculating pump provides us instant hot water. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. When you turn on the shower or a faucet, do you get hot water instantly? Depending on the age of your Navien NPE-A model, he did you a favor. - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. It only takes a minute to sign up. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. We were advised of this upon installation. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. my understanding of the Navien with internal recirc pump is that they work with either an external dedicated return pipe or an internal bypass loop located within the water heater cabinet. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Categories Home Improvement, Patio, Lawn & Garden, Plumbing, Tools, Water Valve Handle Broke Off? But in my case its significant amount of time and it only really gets hot if I fully open the hot water at that faucet otherwise it is luke warm. However, that shouldnt happen if you have turned the pump off. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages, but they do offer the luxury of having hot water almost instantaneously and they save you a lot of water. And. Inspect the water feeder valve, water pressure, and water pressure relief valve. What is more, you can, by these estimates, reduce the future water bill considerably and actually profit nicely just by not needlessly waiting for water when youre waiting for the hot water to kick in. We have some suggestions for you if you want to buy the best wifi sockets. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. Great article!! After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Both types of systems have similar pros and cons. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. It means there is some issue with the OT-remote controllers operation. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. Additionally, you can install a 5-micron filter in the water inlet right before the heater to remove impurities from the water. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. Does It Save Money? Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. If water comes out from the pressure relief pipe, this indicates that the issue is not with the unit but with the house's plumbing. The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. Any thoughts on that? If yes, clean them. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Let's hop in! In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. If required, replace the thermistor. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Page 12 Turn off and discontinue use of the water heater if any of the vent . First, place a thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. This gives you a negative return on investment (ROI), so. It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. Solar panels, wiring, old TVs and sometimes DIY powerwalls. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. It tells you about the abnormality of the external tank thermistor. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. A place for plumbing advice and help. That's an interesting solution. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. Place a bucket underneath it to catch any water that drains when you remove the filter. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? 2. Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. All in all, its important to understand that recirculation pumps are worth the money. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. toby sutton wife of frank sutton how to turn on navien recirculation pump sounds like you need a different plumber to assess your situation. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. You will not get hot water instantly. This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. This gives users hot water when they need it, saving water and money. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. That installation is incorrect. The hot water recirculation pump works by: The very phrase recirculating comes from this pump returning the unused hot water back into the tank. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. If that fails, then the pump impeller might have disintegrated or the system water pressure may be below 0 at the pump suction causing the pump to cavitate. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. air). Another sign is the error code display. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. For example, you will see Navien error code 003 on the display screen, which means the igniter is malfunctioning. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Its really an easy task to do. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. If the problem persists, call a technician to fix the unit. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. Reinsert the filter into the plastic assembly. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. Side question: are you able to explain to me what always on means? He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. I bought the. Here is the final install. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. (std. 1. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Thanks! I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. FREE Returns . The buffer tank eliminates the "cold water sandwich" effect and issues of minimum flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters.